Sump Help

[Feivel]

Hey guys, i got a 90gallon with a 10 gallon i want to turn to a sump set-up. i was wondering how i could do it, whats involved and what parts do what and a good brand pump to return the water
thanks

[NanoSF]

Others will help you with brands I'm sure, but I think you will end up regretting using a 10 gallon for a sump. Just too small and crowded for what you will need to supply a 90 gallon. Tanks are cheap and easy to come by I would start with at least a 20 gallon, 30 would be what I would look for depending on your space limitations.

[Hookup]

There are many designs for dumps but most have some surface skimming/overflow, dual drain lines for safety, and a return pump.  The tank should drain / overflow automatically as the return pump fills it thus creating a cycle.  In a power outage the return stops so the overflow/drain stops and your not flooding.

Look into overflow styles like coast to coast and internal boxes and external boxes to see which suits your setup the best.

[bongo]

I have a 90g with a 33g sump

It fits under the stand if you take the top central brace out... then you put it back.

I find it kinda small... bigger is better in terms of sump size.

[SWFitzy]

my sump is more then half my tank. Tank is 70 gal, and my sump is 37g. the MORE water in your sytstem the better. I have seen people use 10 gallon tanks for display and 60g sumps. As others have said, you will regret having such a small sump tank.

[FocusFin]

Others will help you with brands I'm sure, but I think you will end up regretting using a 10 gallon for a sump. Just too small and crowded for what you will need to supply a 90 gallon. Tanks are cheap and easy to come by I would start with at least a 20 gallon, 30 would be what I would look for depending on your space limitations.

+

My first sump was a 20 gallon for a 110 gallon display and I found it very frustrating to work with. I quickly changed to a 50 gallon and have all the room I need.

[omarh]

I'm using a 33 gal sump for my 90 as well.

it is JUST enough for my needs but bigger is always an better. i guess 30/33 gal is where y ou'd want to be at least  so y ou have enough room for a decent size skimmer and enough room to set up a small refugium all while maintaining a large enough return pump section (to cope with evaporation and maintaining high enough water levels for the pump).  It would all depend on how much room you have underneath the stand etc... (don't forget to account for reactors/space for jugs for calcium alk dosing etc...

[Feivel]

WEll, my tank is drilled and i will post pics after school. i am fairly limited on space since its built in the wall, i have enough room to fit a 10 gallon in between the 2x4 maybee a dual 10 set up? on top of each other or custom build one?. im running freshwater tank, salt water is just tooooo expensive for me. id say im a begginer with the aquariums so big words like refugium i dont quite understand yet. nor do i think i need, could be wrong.

Any help is very appreciated
cheers
Seb

[NanoSF]

The refugium is part of the sump or something on it's own. Basically it just means an area of no livestock but still has natural filtration usually. I don't think there is much point to a refugium for fresh water other than adding more water to the system and having a place for more filtration. Mostly people use them in salt to add more live rock/sand and some macro algae.

[omarh]

why not just plug the holes up and not run a sump.
a 10 gallon sump will be a waste of time and money spend on return pumps and plumbing. and won't increase water volume much since the sump is usually about half full of water anyway so an extra 5 gallons of system volume is negligeable or perhaps not worth the extra hassle. alternatively if you reaaaaly want to have a sump. you can perhaps plumb 2 or even 3 10 gallon tank one on top of the other. and maybe have the main tank drain to the top most sump, and let gravity feed the lower two and install the return from the last sump to go back to the display.....but again i'm not very experienced so that was just a quick idea from the top of my head and i don't think it's really worth the hassle.

[omarh]

come tothink of it, that multi tank sump idea is silly. lol
i vote for plug the holes and skip the sump (since you're doing freshwater

[NanoSF]

I would keep the holes and use what you have space for. If it is just a 10 gallon then so be it. I wouldn't do it if the holes were not already there but they are. Basically I don't know much about freshwater, but algae is the number one problem in most tanks I figure. So make the 10 gallon a refugium. Some kind of algae breeding ground. Light it with some warmer coloured light and look into ways to get a lot of algae to grown in there. Basically you would want that tank to look like crap so the display doesn't. You can also throw some sand, bioballs, your heater...stuff like that in there. just getting the overflow going will be helpful to your display too. That way you get surface skimming covered.

Don't over fill your 10 gallon. Make sure when power goes off the drain down (meaning it keeps draining for a bit) does not over fill your 10 gallon. If you need help with ways to reduce drain down let me know. I struggled with this and got lots of great help from people on here.

[Feivel]

Ok so i got a couple new pictures up on my profile. The pic of the nice side of the wall is my 50 gallon. i replaced it with the 90 2 days ago.
SO essentially i would like to turn that 10 gallon into a sump filter for the freshwater. By doing this removing the 2 side filters and saving $ on filters and providing a bigger surface area to be filtered. So in the middle picture you can see how i am limited in space. i have an area i can turn the 2x4's sideways, the 2 last far vertical sections, will take some work but will give me an extra like 4 inches to work with, unless i do a custom build 20 tall. if you look just over the 10gal you can see my overflow tube (i kinked it back upwards past the top of the tank incase of leaky cap) seen in the next picture. in the back corner by the angel you can see my overflow (bulkhead???) i capped it off. you can see my fry tank in the background.

Now, to run a proper sump for freshwater, is there a good site anyone can refer me to that explains what the compartments are and what they do and whats needed in them. I do indeed believe that the 10 gallon is TOO SMALL considering the fact that 3 inches of water in the big tank is about 11 gallons Its a beautiful day for a power outage water level where it sits in the 3rd picture

what is a good flowrate for a 90 gal? (return pump wise) is it good to cycle the water once an hour(full 90gph) or 400to800+gph? id be guessing the more the better??
Can i buy dollar store sponges and use them or are actual fish filters from a pet shop required? where can i get this stuff?? big als? or home depot?

Thanks for the time spent helping me out. Cheers

[NjOyRiD]

check tes private msg

[NanoSF]

I don't see any pictures in your profile yet. Maybe they need to be approved first or something. Not sure how OVAS does this as I have never uploaded pictures.

I'm sure there is websites that show you how to make a freshwater sump, but I am still of the opinion that adding chambers to a tank this small is useless. Basically you could maybe make one chamber to put the return pump in. The rest would be what people refer to as the refugium. In salt there often is a third chamber for a protein skimmer but you won't be doing that. You can create a simple bubble trap (easy to look up how to do this on the net) to prevent bubbles in return pump and to separate these two chambers.

I'm sure there are cheap sponges you can use if that is what you want to do. I think I saw someone with a pot scrubber dollar store DIY filtration set up on OVAS. I don't know much about this, but I would just make sure you are dealing with pure products. Whatever is aquarium safe being the pure ingredient of course.

Again, I am no freshwater expert but for a refugium in saltwater the return flow is not important. In fact it was suggested to me when I built mine that less was better. More time to go through filtration in the refugium. I don't see why this would be any different in freshwater.

Hope we can get some freshwater people in here to shoot down my assumptions and set me straight

[Feivel]

Well i was talking with NjOyRiD he suggested either i go fluval 404 (at 220$) or use a 100micron sock on the overflow, get lots of bio balls, some filter floss, no tank seperations and the return pump of 400gph (wich are about 180$) so cost of brand new are both equivalent. so unless i get a 20-25 gallon and try and squezze it through the wall and notch it in blah blah blah, or just buy a canister filter ..... i think i got my mind made up

Can i plug the canister filter into the sump overflow? and have the return just going into the tank?

Thanks again greatly for all your time and effort in helping me
Cheers
Sebastien

[FocusFin]

saltwater is just tooooo expensive for me

I know I'm beating a dead horse but if you're going to start spending money on a new filter etc... why not go saltwater instead (unless freshwater is really what you want)

All you would need to get a fish only saltwater going is some live rock for maybe $150.00 and a used Quiet 3000 pump (for example at maybe $30 to $40). A couple of used maxi jets at $10 to $15 a piece. Any lighting will do for fish only. That's about the same price as a new fluval.

With a drilled 90 gallon you're already way ahead of most people when they get into saltwater. Even if you didn't want to get involved with the sump at first you could cap the overflows and just set up the tank with live rock to start.

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be expensive.

[Severum]

Lets not forget
Salt $50
Refractometer $40
Test kits $?
etc.

But ya, go salt!

[FocusFin]

Lets not forget
Salt $50
Refractometer $40
Test kits $?
etc.
But ya, go salt!

Shhhh...we're never going to convert these guys if you scare them up front. Let them realize why they've blown through their savings a year down the road like the rest of us

[Feivel]

Well, I am converted.  i have a 30g display and 30g sump. Now im planing a custom build 90g salt tank display and approx 45 sump. any help on that is cool too.

whats the maximum water level the skimmer should be? no point on putting a 45 gallon if all i can put in it is 3" of water.